jtem:

tiocfaidharlulz:

 

Again, you’re right, the onus isn’t on the Irish. But it’s not on every British citizen either. What the British state did/does to my country was/is worthy of violent reaction and people should be repulsed by the British state because of it’s role in Ireland - North and south - particularly in it’s continued occupation of six of our counties. Britain judged and repressed, discriminately, the Irish people for their own benefit, Britain used the system to expliot my people and Britain advocated the idea that the Irish were scum, that they shouldn’t be accepted or respected, evident through the microcosmic “no Irish need apply” signs throughout British history. That kind of attitude, typical of the British state, is something which makes my blood boil; I understand and appreciate it does the same to you, however we seem to draw lines there - you’re willing to have an equal reaction to all British people because of the British state

No. I just made it clear that this was not the case. It is the case for the British IN THE NORTH. The north is partitioned by the British. The north is occupied and ruled by the British. The British consider the northern counties to be British soil. You will find them on every map of the U.K. And, yes, there is a HUGE, a MASSIVE difference between a Brit and a Brit moving to/living in the British partition. There is a MASSIVE difference between a Brit and a Brit taking advantage of the rape of Ireland. There is a difference between a Brit and a Brit traveling to British occupied Ireland to attend a school that only exists because of the rape of Ireland, a school which actually played an important political role in the rape of Ireland.

There is a difference.

Aye, but you keep saying there’s a difference, but not saying what the difference is. If they are not actively repressing, exploiting or degrading the Irish people - in fact, if some of them come here and turn out to be activists advocating a united Irish Republic - what is it I’m supposed to be against them being here for?

jtem:

tiocfaidharlulz:

Well, no. I go to Queens University in Belfast, I don’t see that as me “taking advantage” of the rape of my country. I agree the six counties continue to be raped and ruined by Britain but I don’t think anybody who uses the facilities here as being morally bankrupt for doing so - and I think to see it as so and to see the North as a seperate entity,

JTEM:

I agree that the moral dilemma is not on everyone, it’s not on any of the Irish. It’s on the British. The rape of Ireland shames the rapists, not the victim, not Ireland and not the Irish.

What’s more, I wouldn’t react the same way towards a French student, or a German student traveling to any part of Ireland, going to any school in Ireland. Ireland wasn’t raped in their name, for their benefit. No school was built for them with the blood of the Irish used to wet its mortar. The issue is a British girl moving to a British enclave created specifically for British people, just to attend a school that actually played an important political roll in the repression of the Irish in Ireland.

Yes, THAT is different from an Irish person living in that same enclave:  IT’S IRELAND, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, WHY SHOULDN’T THE IRISH LIVE THERE?

As for “it would be different in Dublin or Galway” because “she would not be taking advantage of the rape of Ireland” - British imperialism raped the whole of my nation and it’ effects are still heavily existing down south, in fact I’d argue there’s more West Brit attitudes in the South of Ireland than there is in the North. The partition of the country is maintained by the British, yes, but in the individual case you pointed out she would appear to be an unlikely candidate to support the continued partition of the country, British students studying here can’t vote on that issue and they did not create it themselves so I think it’s highly unfair and pointless to blame each individual Brit student here for partition.

Of course it’s wrong to benefit from the suffering of my people, but things have advanced since then. I’d love to see QUB reformed or taken down for a new university to be put up, I’d love to see the name changed. But going to that university doesn’t make any individual, and I refuse to accept that it makes me, a beneficiary of the deaths and struggles of my people. It’s in our interest to retake these shitty institutions and we have done.

tiocfaidharlulz:

I agree with you to an extent, but I don’t think you have it well enough in context and I think you’re way of thinking on this is indiscriminate; you have to look at it fairly and looking at circumstance.

I hope I’ve cleared things up, drew the blanket back some, uncovered most people and circumstances. The issue is not with anyone but the British, and only with the British in so far as the north goes. The issue is British people moving to an area of Ireland occupied & partitioned for British people, to go to a school that only exists because of that partition, a school that actually played a part in the historical repression of the Irish in Ireland.

It’s different for the non-British (whom the partition was not created for), it’s different for the Irish and it’s different for the British in any part of Ireland outside the north. A Brit in any part of Ireland outside the north is just fine. There are no issues there. But the north of Ireland remains under foreign — BRITISH — occupation and repression.

Again, you’re right, the onus isn’t on the Irish. But it’s not on every British citizen either. What the British state did/does to my country was/is worthy of violent reaction and people should be repulsed by the British state because of it’s role in Ireland - North and south - particularly in it’s continued occupation of six of our counties. Britain judged and repressed, discriminately, the Irish people for their own benefit, Britain used the system to expliot my people and Britain advocated the idea that the Irish were scum, that they shouldn’t be accepted or respected, evident through the microcosmic “no Irish need apply” signs throughout British history. That kind of attitude, typical of the British state, is something which makes my blood boil; I understand and appreciate it does the same to you, however we seem to draw lines there - you’re willing to have an equal reaction to all British people because of the British state - I will never do to the ordinary British individual what the British state did to the people of Ireland. A state is not it’s people; in almost every case historically it does not represent them and it does dispicable things on their behalf and in their name - as politically minded individuals we should be able to recognize this and not put it on the masses that that state claims to be acting for. There are British people who advocate a united Irish republic, they are not using Ireland and they are not disrespecting the culture and history of Ireland, a British individual (provided they do not benefit from imperialism at the detriment of my country, or disrespect my country) is a very welcome immigrant, much like every Polish, American, Vietnamese, Chinese, Roma or whatever other kind of student, is and should be in Ireland.

As for QUB’s history: as seanmacdiarmada pointed out, the other universities in Ireland (down suoth) NUIG, UCD etc. were founded int he same way Queens was. They’re all one in the same, that is simply the way the cookie crumbled in Ireland’s history; they are schools in Ireland and they’re used majorly by Irish student, in fact mostly nationalist Irish students. You won’t find a university over here that doesn’t apply to your rape description.

Of course the Irish should live here, in this “british” enclave (which I still reject as a statement). We do, we make up a large part of the six counties, that doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t be welcome to live here.

Maybe we may just agree to disagree, but I stand entirely by my point. The North of Ireland is as much part of Ireland as Co. Cork. The partition of the country is pathetic and I refuse to accept it politically, I drive five minutes down the road and I’m across the border, so obviously I agree with you on that, however the North is largely nationalist/Republican and Catholic or heretics of the Catholic religion - it’s not British, and the British and the Unionists well know it at this point, therefore I see no problem with individual Brits (who aren’t individually repressing others in the North) being here, in many cases they turn out to be great people with productive roles in our society.

Ireland’s raped historically by the British state, not the individual Brit. I understand that you don’t appreciate this fact, but as an individual from the North here who cares deeply and feels very passionately about the continuing struggle against British occupation in Ireland, I will not go against my individual comrades in Britain who have done nothing wrong to my country. The same as I won’t go against any individual comrade or average citizen of America or the European Union or any other state or group of states which have had a detrimental impact on Ireland.

Fair enough that we disagree, at least we’ve both bantered back and forth our opinions, and clearly I’m not going to change your mind on it. But this is just my opinion and I thought it was important to put it out there.

Saoirse don Éire agus Isbella abú lol

jtem:

“Ok, Irishman here, and fuck off. That’s really all I have to say to you. Going to uni is not an invasion”

—titletocome

Well, anyone can claim to be anything on the internet, so why not stick to the issues and the facts instead of “My opinion means more than anyone elses”?

Besides, my family…

For someone telling him that he shouldn’t be going down the “my opinion overrides yours”, you’re being obscenely condescending in this whole “you clearly don’t get it” path you’ve decided to go down. I appreciate that you have an opinion on the occupation of the six counties and the British imperialism enforced upon Ireland over the last 800 years, but I find you’re entire point past that to be enitrely ridiculous. And I say that as an Irish Republican Socialist.

I’m vehemently against the occupation of our six counties and I’m anti-British state, I’m anti- anybody coming over here as an individual who tries to enforce their culture at the expense of ours or tries to demean or degrade our culture - that’s where you seem to be confused. I’ve come across a fierce amount of arseholes in my time who have been disrespectful of Irish culture and the Irish people and have ignored the Irish struggle or tried to laugh it off as unimportant to counter-productive, I’ll stand against anybody who takes advantage of the history of my country to come over here and tear down the people and what they’ve been through; the fact however is blatant - not every British citizen does this. Most British people are dead on and are more than welcome in any part of this country. And that goes for most British citizens. But you directed this specifically at Isabella. Now, I don’t know Isabella very well personally, but I’ve got an idea of her from interacting with on here and by the way she’s expressed herself and the bottom line here is your opinion is entirely and categorically flawed in saying people like her are not welcome, appreciated or needed in this country. She’s not taking advantage of British imperialism by coming here and using it against the six counties, she’s coming here because she wants to, has an interest and respect for our culture, our history, our politics and is willing to listen to all types of people within our community. That’s just the bonus; people like her should be encouraged to come here because they’re making their own opinions and respecting other people, it shows the strength of relations across different cultures - Ireland is not, and should never be, just for the Irish or just for people traditionally aligned with Ireland - Ireland should be open to different people and different cultures, as long as that is not at the expense and detriment of our own.

Any anybody who thinks differently just because one individual is born in Britain is simply not looking at things from a fair perspective. There’s plenty of Brits I know in Belfast and around the six counties who are brilliant, respectful people - a handful of them are even Republicans.

Republicans are constantly told that they’re rigid and stuck in their ways and that they’re pathetic because of it. This is completely wrong and anybody who thinks this way loses a great amount of respect from me automatically. Your point however lives up to that claim. You’re on the right lines as long as you stick to judging it by circumstance; if someone is coming over and disrespecting people, fuck them, they can goway to fuck - but assuming every Brit should stay out of Ireland because they’re British is a farce and a delusion and it’s counter-productive to Irish Republicanism. When we say ‘Brits Out’ we don’t mean every British person, we mean the British system and it’s imperialistic impacts. One British girl studying in Belfast with Republican Socialist leanings isn’t the rape of the occupied six counties.